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Post subject:Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
 Posted: Aug 01, 2005 - 04:13 AM #3428
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Rapid City, SD
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It's been a long time since I've layed one out and I've somewhat forgot how to do it. I switched companies also, and the guys I'm workin with now haven't really ever made these except one guy, but he forgot like I did lol.
Anyway.. I can lay everything out, but the size of the arc and center point on the side that isn't flat (arc B).
Just incase my description didn't confuse y'all enough, I'll even throw in one of the worst sketches ever posted too lol. So if anyone could post a link for a how to, or maybe make a sketch to show me what I'm missing I'd greatly appreciate it. |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 02, 2005 - 02:31 AM #3431
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 826
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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Just draw the arc free hand three times and cut the center one.   
Give us some more info about this fitting. It appears to be flat on the right? What size? |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 02, 2005 - 04:30 AM #3433
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 117
Location: Midwest, USA
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Is this what is referred to as a Parker Fitting?
One of the Budzik books should have it. I don't have access at this time. |
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If it's broke, it was like that when I found it.
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 02, 2005 - 04:34 AM #3434
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 826
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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[quote="tnbndr"]Is this what is referred to as a Parker Fitting?
One of the Budzik books should have it. I donI think it is the Parker/airplane fitting. I learned it for Budzik's book as well. I will have to look see. |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 02, 2005 - 11:06 AM #3435
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Moderator
Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Waukesha
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I've seen many of these made up in bigger shops (usually on plasma technology) But you can always go back to PROJECTION technology  and I think this will work...I don't know how Budzik explains it, I cant find it, Kaberlien shows this as square end? His books show a lot of short cuts and many miss the core principles of layout using these..I'd say the short cuts are valuable, but only after you understand the long way..
The length of the lines in the orginal arc as shown by the red dividers is transfered to the second to the top. the true lengths of 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are all transfered to the top. this will keep the plane of the bend parallel throughout the bend. You won't have to worry about the length of the top arc, for it will come out in the layout of the bottom ajoining piece. (You may want to double check this that they are the same...measure twice, cut once
Hope this helps |
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"If you make your job important it is quite likely to return the favor" Author Unknown
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 12:47 AM #3438
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Rapid City, SD
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That is one of them fittings, once you get in the zone and do a few, they are amazingly simple... lol
I wish I knew the exact name of the fitting, I've heard them called reverse elbows most commonly, also heard them called drop cheek elbows, but I'm pretty sure that isn't right.
I'll post a lil better sketch tonight of how I think they are done (managed to scratch something close today), but it's still that draw 3 lines and cut the middle one method.
For what it helps, I know the layout of the heel was made by the following steps. Measure the flat side's true length, cut a piece of metal that long. Then to get the angle, scratch the wide dimention on one end, the narrow dimention on the other end and cut along that line (adding in pitts material of course).
I'll return after supper with my crayons in hand to give y'all a lil better picture than a sticky note version. |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 02:08 AM #3439
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Rapid City, SD
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Ok, I'm back and I think I have the solution... y'all tell me if it looks right.
http://www.amickracing.com/misc/elbow.jpg
I put it in a link since the pic is kinda big. But I think I got ot figured out.
Run a line squared from the arc on the right over, then follow it onto the other side of the fitting (the 6" wide angled part). Set the dividers from point A to point B, swing arcs from there. Where they intersect is the center of the arc I was tryin to find.
Seems right to me anyway. I likely won't get a chance to test this on real metal anytime soon unfortunately. So if anyone is bored enough to try it, or recognises it I'd love to hear if this is right or not.
Thanks again for the help guys!
Lynn[/list] |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 02:23 AM #3440
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Moderator
Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Waukesha
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| I think projecting the lines is much easier than all of that IMHO |
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"If you make your job important it is quite likely to return the favor" Author Unknown
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 02:45 AM #3441
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Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Waukesha
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| I ran the drawing the way you think it should be compared to a more accurate way of projecting the lines. You can clearly see the arc you have drawn runs short, which can or will cause the metal to wrinkle and or twist... |
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"If you make your job important it is quite likely to return the favor" Author Unknown
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 03:07 AM #3442
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Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Waukesha
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Here you can see the difference, the inside arc length is about 1' 1/16" and the outside arc from projection is about 1' 3/4" This can be a problem trying to lay this out square? How will you do this?
Hope this helps... |
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"If you make your job important it is quite likely to return the favor" Author Unknown
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 03:09 AM #3443
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Moderator
Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Waukesha
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If you have any questions please ask.."Together we can learn more than apart"...quoted from the late Mr Quadarucci.
4 am comes up fast..good night my friends! |
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"If you make your job important it is quite likely to return the favor" Author Unknown
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 03:28 AM #3444
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Rapid City, SD
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Hummm.... well I was kinda close lol
The reason I keep doing it by swingin arcs is thats how I did several before and they worked out great (until I forgot anyway). Projected lines very well could be easier, but honestly I've never done any fittings using this method before... you know that whole change is hard chestnut.
Hopefully I'll get some time to call the guy that taught me so I can see how I used to do them... between us all, we oughta be able to figure out a dozen ways to figure this out lol.
The one thing that kinda confuses me is how far the arc sticks past the end (6" part in the middle). Once this is folded up wouldn't it not be square to the bottom? |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 03:32 AM #3445
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Rapid City, SD
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How do you edit these posts?
Anywho, if it can stick past the end a bit w/o any problem, couldn't you just set your dividers from point A to where the center lines of the arc's intersect (follow the light line from point A to your right in my drawing). How close would that arc be?
I know... scribe them all 3 ways and cut the middle one |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 04:33 AM #3446
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 826
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| That method of,"Free hand it three time then cut the center one" is from the trial and error days, just a joke of course . I like Bud's method. I have made a few very large Airplane fittings in the past but I generally use a drop cheek elbow now. |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 04:57 AM #3447
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 826
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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Mr. Amick,
I just went to your website, wow! I love those race cars. We were just talking today about what use to be the Havatampa racing. Dirt latemodels are my favorite. I was a crew chief for a Legends car team a few years ago when we ran on dirt. Nice looking car. |
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Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 05:56 AM #3448
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Rapid City, SD
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Thank ya! It's amazing the ammount of time making the bodies look just perfect (or close anyway), then ya go beat the crap out of them every week.
Thanks for the compliments! This is my 1st year behind the wheel, a definate learning experience, but helpin Dad for so long has surely gave me a bit of an advantage.
The WoO latemodels (basically the same as the Hava-Tampa and Xtreme) cars are just insane. 800+ horsepower on a 2300# car... on dirt... Oh yes, someday I'll have to drive one. Ours makes mid 500 horse's and it's impressive enough.
We had some Legends from ND come through 2 weekends ago... man they put on one heck of a show! I really wish they'd ditch the mini sprints they have here and get them. |
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 03, 2005 - 01:07 PM #3450
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Moderator
Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Waukesha
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Here is a quick method and it comes fairly close to the first one with projecting the points of the arc.
1 - divide the arc on the bottom where it is shown in true shape
2 - project this point as shown with red line
3 - the length of A' to B' will be the same as A to B in the bottom as shown.
4 - Now you have points 1a, 2a and 3a, bisect 1a to 3a and bisect 3a to 2a.
5 - project lines perpendicular for both as show and the intersection of these lines becomes your center for the rad arc.
Like I say and you can see, they come really close, that it probably wont tell the difference. The new arc is in Blue.
Hope this helps. Is this how Budzik shows?
All your doing here connecting three points to form a circle? This can be studied in basic geometry for those interested... |
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_________________
"If you make your job important it is quite likely to return the favor" Author Unknown
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Post subject:RE: Reverse elbow (or airplane) layout?
Posted: Aug 04, 2005 - 04:41 AM #3457
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Pro Tinner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Rapid City, SD
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Uhm, k I'm gunna have to go with the projected lines, much faster than than that last way. But that last way you've showed me brought back some memories of laying some stuff out like that on other fittings, I'm sure it'll come in handy!
Thanks again for all the help! Hopefully my schedule will tame down a bit and I can hang out around here a bit more than I have before.
Oh, and if I hear back from the guy that taught me I'll be sure to put a post up here on how he did it. |
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Post subject:Finished Parker
Posted: Aug 07, 2005 - 06:29 PM #3487
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Moderator
Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Waukesha
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| Here is for those still courious as to what a finished parker fitting looks like... |
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_________________
"If you make your job important it is quite likely to return the favor" Author Unknown
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