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Post subject:Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
 Posted: May 23, 2004 - 10:20 PM #1050
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Webmaster
Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1308
Location: Waukesha
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Pricer, I havce an article from the boat div. Of The Mullins MFG Corp, This was one of your questions on rivets and spacing or were you wondering size of rivets?
This response is from the readers information exchange. The article is titled "Tight - Seaming Sheet metal Boats" and goes on to read;
In our galvanized sheet iron boats, we use a counter sunk flush joint, rivetted, with rivets spaced 3/4 in. apart, these joints are then float soldered. We find this to be one of the most satisfactory seams or joints to make in a boat.
In our aluminum boats, we weld all the seams and have found this quit satisfactory.
Source January 10 1930 Sheet Metal Worker
Bud |
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 23, 2004 - 11:08 PM #1051
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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How in the world do you find all of these things? Was this something from your library? I understand that they are reffering to a "real" rivets, do you think I could use closed pop rivets in this project? When they are talking about,"float soldered" what does this mean?
Thanks, |
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Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 24, 2004 - 01:03 AM #1053
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Power User
Joined: May 14, 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Sydney Australia
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Pricer,
To get a waterproof joint, the "sphere of influence" of the rivets must overlap. From memory, the sphere of influence of a rivet is 4D. This means that if you were to use 1/8" rivets, you would have to use a rivet spacing of 3/4" to get the seal you require. With 20 gauge material you would have to dimple countersink the rivets to get a flush fit. You would need over 500 rivets just to rivet the bottom to the frame.
I would suggest that 1/8" would be too big as the usual formula for rivet size is 4 times the thickness of the thickest sheet being joined. 3/32" rivets would be a better size. This of course would reduce the pitch of the rivet to 5/8" , about 600 rivets. You'd still have to dimple for a flush fit.
So the cost is really going up now. You'll need maybe 100 or more skin pins to hold the bottom onto the frame while you drill all the holes and maintain alignment. I'd go for Avdel pins rather than Cleco. There are some clecos on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... gory=26436
The countersink in the frame is easier with a "cage" you can set the depth of the countersink accurately. Again on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... gory=26436
Food for thought.
Grue |
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In Jus Voco Spurius
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 24, 2004 - 03:29 AM #1055
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Webmaster
Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1308
Location: Waukesha
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pricer wrote:
How in the world do you find all of these things? Was this something from your library? I understand that they are reffering to a "real" rivets, do you think I could use closed pop rivets in this project? When they are talking about,"float soldered" what does this mean?
Thanks,
Yes I have quite an extensive library, that in time all will be able to enjoy. It's "The Sheet Metal Shop Resource Center" Hence the name resource 
I have been looking into this "Float Soldered" term? I'll put it here as soon as I find a proper explaination.
Bud |
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 24, 2004 - 12:27 PM #1056
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Thanks for the help. I am very happy to see this forum. Thanks Bud. I have not found anything on the topic of "float soldering". Thanks again. |
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Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 24, 2004 - 04:57 PM #1058
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Power User
Joined: Sep 03, 2003
Posts: 171
Location: edinburgh
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| I dont know if this is of any help but when we used to make water tanks for life boats some of the older type before lockformed edges were rivetted,to repair them we had to take out the old rivets and replace with new,these were counter sunk copper or tinmans after they had been drawn and set the rivets were tinned and then sweated to make them watertight.aw ra best marky |
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 24, 2004 - 11:40 PM #1059
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| How does the countersink cage work? Does it attach to something or is it hammer driven? |
_________________
Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 24, 2004 - 11:54 PM #1060
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Power User
Joined: May 14, 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Sydney Australia
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Best way to describe it is that its part if the drill bit, you can adjust the depth that the drill goes into the material very accurately. Once adjusted you can drill or countersink multiple holes to an identical depth. They are used extensively in aircraft manufacture / repair.
Glenn |
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Home page
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 25, 2004 - 04:02 AM #1064
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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Grue,
I went to ebay and the seller of the cage you mentioned has, 3 Zephyr Countersink Cages w/15 Bits . Is this a good brand?
Thanks, |
_________________
Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 27, 2004 - 02:21 AM #1079
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Power User
Joined: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 170
Location: West side of no man's land
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Pricer,
The Zephyr countersink is a really good tool.
I picked one up years ago for $5.00 at a local swap meet. They're generally used in Aircraft work. They're adjustable by the 1000th's.
I'd think you could find one on Ebay.
I used mine when construction work was slow, and did sign work. The boss had one, and spoke very highly of them. So, I went out and bought one. |
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 30, 2004 - 02:39 AM #1088
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Thanks steveb, I will go se how the bidding is going. |
_________________
Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 31, 2004 - 03:08 AM #1093
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Power User
Joined: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 170
Location: West side of no man's land
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Pricer,
Did you win the bid?
Sounds like it would've been a good deal.
SteveB. |
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 31, 2004 - 04:03 AM #1095
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| I did purchase the cage and I have bids on another one. I think it was a good deal. Wha do they sell for new? |
_________________
Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 31, 2004 - 04:16 AM #1096
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Power User
Joined: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 170
Location: West side of no man's land
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That was why I gave you the site address.
I think they cost upwards of 100.00 each. It's been so long, I really can't remember anymore. I bought mine back in 92. |
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Post subject:Zephyr
Posted: May 31, 2004 - 04:24 AM #1097
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Power User
Joined: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 170
Location: West side of no man's land
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Pricer
If I were you, I'd buy all of the offered one's including the one's from Australia.
If you have the cash.
Those prices are worth it. Especially the one's for 22.00. If you win, you've got a good deal, for certain.
SteveB. |
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 31, 2004 - 04:24 AM #1098
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| With shipping it was $19.00. Great deal I hope, it will be the first transaction at ebay. |
_________________
Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 31, 2004 - 04:52 AM #1099
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Power User
Joined: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 170
Location: West side of no man's land
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19.00 is an excellent price. Good deal.
Remember, those are precision tools. Precision tools are never inexpensive. |
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 31, 2004 - 06:15 AM #1102
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Power User
Joined: May 14, 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Sydney Australia
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Pricer,
This sort of thing comes up at Boeing surplus sales you can buy there at the same price as the ebay sellers buy.
Glenn |
_________________
In Jus Voco Spurius
Home page
http://www.metalbashatorium.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: May 31, 2004 - 08:41 AM #1103
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| The cage I purchased, Is it capable of drilling 3/32 rivets? Are the bits interchangable? |
_________________
Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Pop Rivets (Sheet Metal Boats)
Posted: Jun 01, 2004 - 02:12 AM #1112
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Power User
Joined: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 170
Location: West side of no man's land
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Drilling rivets? They do have a rivet shaver, which will remove the rivet heads. Yes, the bits are interchangeable. The shavers will allow you to remove the heads and pull the rivet out from the rear. Or just punch it out with another rivet. A pretty smart idea actually.
Enjoy. You got an excellent tool. |
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