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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
 Posted: Feb 16, 2005 - 02:39 AM #2573
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Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Boulder Colorado
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losso: Re: A year too late. I happened to be searching the internet for some info regarding soldering to stainless steel and ran across this thread. Of all the postings, your "a year too late" posting was the one that solved my dilemna. I was trying to solder steel coax to a brass SMA connector (yeah yeah, I know "what's that?"...RF devices is what they are..in this case used in a very fancy adiabatic refriderator (don't ask)) Pretty far removeds from shower trays...but then since you solved my problem...maybe not so far removed after all. :) Anyway...thanks for your late posting!!! :)
Lisa F |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Feb 16, 2005 - 02:39 AM #2574
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Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Boulder Colorado
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losso: Re: A year too late. I happened to be searching the internet for some info regarding soldering to stainless steel and ran across this thread. Of all the postings, your "a year too late" posting was the one that solved my dilemna. I was trying to solder steel coax to a brass SMA connector (yeah yeah, I know "what's that?"...RF devices is what they are..in this case used in a very fancy adiabatic refriderator (don't ask)) Pretty far removeds from shower trays...but then since you solved my problem...maybe not so far removed after all. :) Anyway...thanks for your late posting!!! :)
Lisa F |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Feb 16, 2005 - 05:41 AM #2576
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Joined: Feb 02, 2005
Posts: 31
Location: pennsylvania
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losso wrote:
i know this is a year to late..... but im only new here. we solder stainless shower trays with either 50/50 or 60/40 for flux we use killed hydrochloric acid ( regular plumbers hydrochloric acid from hardware store with smal pieces of galv droped in till it stops fizzing. Usually works a treat, sticking very easliy and seems very strong.
p.s. i know no one will read this cause youve long since finished your project. Sorry pricer
What do you use to deactivate the acid flux.Also,how well would the killed acid work on mild steel. |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Mar 28, 2005 - 12:50 PM #2810
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Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 7
Location: australia
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gee i havent been back here for a while.
lisaf: glad you found it useful, and yes i was thinking "what's that??"
burninbriar: (sorry for the late reply) I usually use thin guage galv (.4mm or 26guage) to kill the acid, cut them up into about small pieces (about 15mm by 15mm) and drop them into the acid. I normaly use an old coffee mug about half full of the acid, and you will probably have to put in the galv till it is just below the acid for it to kill it quickly. Be a bit careful when putting it in though and do it outside, it smokes and boils violently. You should need to give it at least quarter of an hour, but half an hour is better. HERE IS A BIG POINT: the flux is only going to be good for a day, 2 at most. the longer you leave it, the more by product you get when you heat the stainless. I dont know what it is but it looks like some sort of beige crusty powder, and it makes it hard to stick the solder to it. So only make what you require for the job at hand. first time i used 3 day old stuff it took me forever to work out what was wrong with it, and it drove me nuts. Im not sure if it would last longer if you were to seal it in a bottle, i hae never tried, and for the relativly cheap cost of the ingredients, i always make a fresh lot when i need it.
Now i have never tried using this on mild steel, because ive never had to solder any. I have soldered galv before and for that i just used the hydrochloric acid straight out of the bottle (eek i hear you say) only apply a single stoke of acid to the surfaces your joining with a small brush, solder imedialty then after soldering wash the job of with water, you should see the acid start to bubble when you apply the acid to it. sounds a bit rough but has always worked for me, and if you dont use to much of it, you should be fine. So im not sure but if you wanted to you could try that on some mild steel, i dont see why it wouldnt work, and you wouldnt have to be so careful as there is no galv to burn off. |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Mar 28, 2005 - 12:53 PM #2811
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Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 7
Location: australia
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"you should see the acid start to bubble when you apply the acid to it."
i meant to say you should see the acid start to bubble when you apply it to the galv, duhh |
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Post subject:soldering stainless steel
Posted: Apr 12, 2007 - 03:33 PM #6212
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Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Michigan
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Pricer,
I have read thru this string and was wondering why there was no posting after the application was finished to share the results you achieved with others who may have a similar project to tackle. |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 12, 2007 - 03:47 PM #6213
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Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Michigan
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Pricer,
I have been surfing the web for sheet metal applications and soldering tips when I found this forum. I have read thru this string and was wondering why you didn't post a conclusion after you finished the application to share the actual results that you were able to achieve with others that may be facing a similar challange. The information provided may be history but it could still be helpful to others the same way that I found it. I would like to point out that the two most important aspects of soldering stainless steel (as shown in this string) is the proper flux and a very clean surface. |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 12, 2007 - 11:22 PM #6217
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Power User
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 820
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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Well, I think we had everything tig welded in the feed tank above the waterfall and the sheets that were installed down the slop were over laped 6 to 8". I think everyone just abandoned the idea of soldering the stainless. It all worked out any way.
Since then, I have not attempted to solder any stainless. But it would be good to know. |
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Pricer
Many Minds, Many Hands, Many Solutions
The Curb Shop LLC
www.thecurbshop.com
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 14, 2007 - 06:05 AM #6232
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Power User
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 90
Location: Florida
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| I thought I posted I comment but its gone so I apologize if this is a repeat. I solder Stainless all the time. We use a green flux called Allen Alsol I believe. Regardless it makes me very ill despite the fact that I wear a resperator; and wipes out my eyes. I just purchased a full face resperator with the filters attached behind me I hope this helps. When you speak of 'killed acid' does that mean that the flux is less caustic? I'm taking a TIG class next month in hopes of negating the soldering. |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 16, 2007 - 02:01 AM #6245
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Power User
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 88
Location: McEwen,Tn.
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rothalion.............killed acid is hydrochloric acid with zinc dissolved in it..mureatic acid is the same as hydrochloric acid
Can be purchased at some hardware stores..It's mainly used by masons to clean their brick..
Ruby Fluid is the same as cut acid (zinc chloride)
bordontn formerly from Ft. Myers,Fla. |
_________________
"Old too soon/ smart too late"
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 17, 2007 - 04:27 AM #6259
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Power User
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 90
Location: Florida
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bordontn2 wrote:
rothalion.............killed acid is hydrochloric acid with zinc dissolved in it..mureatic acid is the same as hydrochloric acid
Can be purchased at some hardware stores..It's mainly used by masons to clean their brick..
Ruby Fluid is the same as cut acid (zinc chloride)
bordontn formerly from Ft. Myers,Fla.
Ok. Thanks! Is there a way to reduce the ill effects of using these products? We often solder hundreds of feet of stainless steel gutter, and other parts for days on end.... Is the killed acid less caustic? will the killed acid solder Stainless? Also; and this shows my gross naivete', where would I get the zinc from? Sorry to be so ignorant....thanks. |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 17, 2007 - 04:16 PM #6262
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Power User
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
Posts: 250
Location: Central Ohio
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The coating on galvanized steel is zinc. Zinc is also becoming more available (here in the USA)as sheet stock because of a resurging interest in it's use. I've never used galvanized steel to make killed acid but I think the soldering ability of the zinc coat on galvaized steel led to the idea that one could solder plain steel with killed acid. This I believe is not true.
Ruby fluid is zinc chloride which is what is created when you "kill" muriatic or hydrochloride acids with zinc. I however have never been able to effectively solder stainless with Ruby Fluid. Perhaps it's my technique!
As to the deleterious affects of soldering, I've soldered for days on end with Ruby Fluid, and if I have any ventilation at all I have no trouble. If I solder much at all with muriatic acid on galvanized I'm hacking and wheezing. Another reason for me to stick with the copper! |
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Steve
Blissfully Ignorant Copperhead
www.copperthings.com
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 18, 2007 - 12:01 AM #6266
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Power User
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 90
Location: Florida
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Thanks! Amazing as well. I had an old time roofer who I used to work with come and borrrow some eqipment from us today, he told me to try exactly that: Drop galvanized into the acid. He said an old fellow he once employed did just that. It also helped wight down his flux jar.
Copper is not as bad for me, and oh how I wish the Govt. would go back to using it, but right now, possibly due to the Hurricanes everything in this area that is commercial roofing is specing stainless. In the past we would use copper for the gravel stops and such with a stainless cleat...
I have never been able to solder stainless with Ruby fluid, there is comething different about the recipie for the green flux and the Ruby. Seems that I did read it a while back on the MSDS' but I don't recall.
As for the galvanized we were told to drink milk before and after.
Thanks! |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 18, 2007 - 01:22 AM #6269
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Power User
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
Posts: 250
Location: Central Ohio
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| One other thing, I've always been told that you need to remove the zinc after the acid stops actively bubbling. Leaving that steel core (if you use galvanized steel for your zinc) in the mix might cause the acid to do something. Perhaps that is why the poster above in this thread complained about the killed acid only lasting one day. |
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Steve
Blissfully Ignorant Copperhead
www.copperthings.com
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 18, 2007 - 02:17 AM #6270
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Power User
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 88
Location: McEwen,Tn.
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Y'all...when I started in the bidness back in '61 we killed our acid by using mason jar lids..The threaded portion was zinc
and the top was a white glass..Knocked the glass out and cut up the rim.......I use borax in powder form for flux on silver....Might work on stainless.There is a thick liquid flux that is white that may be a borax base. Stay/silv or stay/brite, something like that...
bordontn |
_________________
"Old too soon/ smart too late"
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 18, 2007 - 04:09 AM #6271
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Power User
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 90
Location: Florida
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| Thank you! Its late so...I will look into this. Borax... Easy to buy and try. Mason jar lids. That's incredible, I wonder if they are still zinc? Geesh I was born in '61...so my respect for your knowledge is great! Its difficult to learn this trade in my area so to have found this site is a blessing! Thanks! |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 18, 2007 - 03:11 PM #6275
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Power User
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
Posts: 250
Location: Central Ohio
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No the lids are no longer zinc. The old zinc lids that I've seen are large threaded lids. More like a screw on cap with the white glass liner that 'ol bordontn mentioned above. The lids now are flat gasket like disks with reusable threaded rings that tighten down over them. I traced down some zinc sheet a couple of years ago but haven't gone looking lately. Any one doing restoration work has probably run across zinc used as flashings or ornamentation, even if they didn't recognize it. I've found the top half of step flashings made of zinc sheet behind dormer cheek walls more than once. Didn't last like copper, but most of the Victorian era houses I've been around didn't have copper flashings originally anyway. I can't just put it off to cost tho as many of these houses were not cheaply made. But lots of Terne coated and galvanized steel. And zinc. Maybe copper wasn't being produced enough in the last half of the 1800's. I lived for a few years changing out the flashings in slate roofed buildings as I stopped the leaks around chimneys and replaced valleys. Tore off 150 years of the next "best thing" from the flat roofs often at the top of some Mansard-roofed beauty and put down copper flat lock soldered tight.
Geez Bordontn, you've got me ramblin'!! |
_________________
Steve
Blissfully Ignorant Copperhead
www.copperthings.com
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 18, 2007 - 04:54 PM #6276
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Power User
Joined: Sep 03, 2003
Posts: 171
Location: edinburgh
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| Used to make our own killed spirits back in the dark days when i was a boy ,now i use Bakers soldering fluid ,i dont know if this is availiable in the U.S it may be the the U.K version of ruby fluid [is it red or just the manufacturers name ?]Bakers works ok on stainless. aw ra best Marky |
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 18, 2007 - 10:50 PM #6278
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Power User
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
Posts: 250
Location: Central Ohio
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| Both the color and the name Marky |
_________________
Steve
Blissfully Ignorant Copperhead
www.copperthings.com
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Post subject:RE: Stainless Steel Soldering
Posted: Apr 21, 2007 - 03:25 AM #6287
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Power User
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 90
Location: Florida
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I made killed acid today much to the complete dismay of my two helpers. Both ran for the hills when the jar began bubbling and smoking...so brave they are!
I put some galvanized chips into a baby food jar about half full of Mureatic acid. Just as you all described it bubbled and smoked. After it settled down I brushed it onto copper and soldered a joint easily with 50/50 solder and a plumbers torch. It smelled pretty rank...I think it worked better than the Ruby fluid, sweated faster but smelled worse. I did not try to join any stainless I didn't have time. Tomorrow I will. Thanks for all the info. Oh and the Bakers I need to get some...so far I only found it on a European site...still looking! |
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