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Post subject:AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
 Posted: Dec 03, 2006 - 06:41 AM #5587
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Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Eddmonton Canada
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I run a small family sheet metal/HVAC shop up here in northern Canada. Currently we are in the process of of expanding are capabilities, and getting into some larger commercial, and institutional projects. Before, there were only three of us, and we would do all the installation, and fabrication ourselves.
Now we have tripled our labour force, and are still looking for more employees. In the last year we have invested 200 K plus into new equipment for the shop, and field. There is massive oppurtunity, for more expansion, and I am wondering what route to go down.
What I am looking at is computerized estimating, and duct fabrication software. Currently all of our estimates are done by my father,(old school database located in his skull), and our shop drawings, are done isometrically, based on field measurements. We have recently purchased a Plasma Table, (Vulcan 2900).
I am wondering if a computerized estimating program, (eg. Quickpen Autobid sheet Metal), and HVAC Autocad program (Quickpen Ductdesigner) would help facilitate our growth? As well, what is a reasonable budget for this type of software? Do I have to purchase AutoCad, and AutoDesk, to run this software, or does it all come in one package? |
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Post subject:RE: AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
Posted: Dec 03, 2006 - 03:29 PM #5589
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Power User
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 117
Location: Midwest, USA
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Do your self a favor and don't jump into anything too quickly. There are lots of options out there.
For drafting you will need AutoCad, the majority of the 3rd party programs sit on top of it.
Quickpen has been an industry standard for a long time but not necessarily the best product.
Go to the link below and investigate. We currently use the CadDuct Solids (drafting /CAD) and the PM2000(shop fabrication) and are looking into the EST program.
Expect and investment of upwards of $30K for decent software that will do as promised.
http://www.cadduct.com/indexmain.html |
_________________
If it's broke, it was like that when I found it.
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Post subject:RE: AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 08:31 PM #5609
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Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Eddmonton Canada
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tnbndr,
How much training did you receive, in order to become fluent in AUTOCAD. I have been looking into some of the various AUTOCAD applications, and it seems that there is pretty steep learning curve involved. I am not interested in hiring a full time CAD detailer, I would kinda like to operate this software, as a part of my shop foreman/project manager duties .
What I want to do is start taking my HVAC duct jobs, and treat them as "spooled" projects, rather than the "one piece at a time" (when it comes to more complex installations ie. laboratory fume exhaust, mechanical rooms) approach we currently employ. I think this would help in eliminating the waste, and delivery issues we are currently dealing with. I would like to begin to foresee more of the problems, a guy encounters when he is installing 30" deep duct in a 34'' deep ceiling space. Has your company, seen any of these benefits, from your software? |
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Post subject:RE: AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
Posted: Dec 07, 2006 - 01:21 AM #5614
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Power User
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 117
Location: Midwest, USA
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scootluc:
I have been doing CAD/Coordination for about 11 years now after 19 years in the field. I took several AutoCad evening classes at a local Tech school. The learning curve is not that great and no matter what software you choose there is going to be a learning curve.
The spooled projects you mention would be more like "nesting" done by a CAM program that downloads to a plasma table. When the program nests the duct and fittings that you input it lays them out on the sheet size that you designate to best utilize the material. You don't mention whether or not you have a plasma table. Your money may be better spent in that direction and use the software associated with that for your "spooled" projects. All of the plasma tables come with their own proprietary software that includes some type of CAD with it for drawing special parts to cut (Advance Cutting Systems uses the PM2000 that I mention in the earlier post). You can also import to these programs from AutoCad or any other CAD program that can save in .dxf format.
Regarding your question of whether the company I work for has seen any benefits from looking ahead to problems with ceiling space. We do large HVAC projects mostly hospitals and they cram 1000lbs into a 5lb sack. With our 3D software we draw in the steel and duct. While drawing the duct it will collision check with the steel automatically. We can import other trades done in 3D for a visual check but usually end up coordinating in a meeting with laptop and overhead projector to decide who goes where. When done correctly and everyone participates it makes for a sweet profitable job with very few problems out in the field when push comes to shove.
We know it is a great benefit but it is difficult to put a quantitative cost savings to the procedure. Some jobs you see huge savings in field install time, others not so much. Unless you could do the same job twice, once withouth preplanning and coordination and then again with so you have some comparison to make.
That is a pretty long winded answer. So I digress. |
_________________
If it's broke, it was like that when I found it.
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Post subject:RE: AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
Posted: Dec 07, 2006 - 01:43 AM #5616
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Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Eddmonton Canada
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We have recently purchased a Plasma table(Lockformer Vulcan 2900), and have noticed tremendous cost savings from this machine.
What I mean by "spooling" is to layout out a entire ductline in CAD, offsets, transitions etc, ensure that it fits the job it is being installed in, share the information with other trades, and than fabricate the whole line as one project. All this to eliminate, the standard conflicts sheet metal techs run into on a daily basis. |
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Post subject:RE: AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
Posted: Dec 11, 2006 - 05:50 PM #5633
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Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Colorado
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scootluc,
I just came across your posting and would like to add my two cents. I'm originally from Saskatoon up there in the Great White North but have since moved to Colorado. I have 7 years in the construction industry as a project manager and estimator.
In light of your last post referring to your purchase of the Lockformer table it would be of great benefit for you to continue to consider QuickPen for your CAD and estimating software. The Vulcan software is directly compatible with all of QuickPen's sheetmetal and CAD products AND ONLY WITH QUICKPEN'S PRODUCTS. What that means is that once you've created your CAD model, the fittings and duct are directly downloaded into the Vulcan software, nested automatically, and then cut on your table. Mechanical Data (the makers of Vulcan software) are part of QuickPen International and therfore develop their software in conjunction with the estimating and CAD products.
Another benefit of the DuctDesigner is that it is directly integrated with AutoCAD and not just an application that runs on top of AutoCAD. What that means is that the menu structures and commands that you're going to learn in your AutoCAD class are going to be the same menu structures and commands that you're going to use in DuctDesigner thus greatly reducing the learning curve.
I hope this information helps |
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Post subject:RE: AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
Posted: Feb 06, 2007 - 03:37 AM #5940
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Joined: Nov 15, 2004
Posts: 5
Location: Atlanta Ga
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Check out this link most of the training videos are free and the ones that are not, are really affordable. you can learn every thing you need to know and more with these videos. i learned cad using them and i am a go to cad guy in our office even guys that went to classes.
http://www.dgcad.com/Acad2004-Level1.htm
As to what ad on to use, i would take tnbndr advice and move slowly. nothing works perfectly and most claim they do. unless you want a case of software rage!!!!!!! i would suggest that you have a rep do a full demonstration of anything you are considering and get written guarantees.
if you need some better ways to estimate email me and i can help you with some automated excel programs they will get you started. they are free (no charge what so ever) and are perfect for a small shop.
monks_dreams@mchsi.com
Enjoy your growth and congrats on doing so well.
Note all error’s and omissions were on porpoise :0) |
_________________
Circumstances may cause interruptions and delays, but never lose sight of your goal. Prepare yourself in every way you can by increasing your knowledge and adding to your experience, so that you can make the most of opportunity when it occurs.
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Post subject:RE: AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
Posted: Oct 02, 2007 - 01:29 AM #6752
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Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 62
Location: Nationwide
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| The CAD-duct program is the best and MOST used duct drafting program in the world. Their is no converstion files or downloads and it runs in AutoCad and works with multiple plasma cutters and coil lines! |
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Post subject:RE: AutoCad, Autodesk, and Estimating Software
Posted: Oct 02, 2007 - 02:49 AM #6753
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Webmaster
Joined: May 13, 2003
Posts: 1305
Location: Waukesha
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If you really want to see some results - our google friends are indexing these and the directory pages in overtime 
Here was a recent listing in the directory - searched sheet metal software in google and the results are 3 rd page not bad...the better your description is, the better the searches - these bots like relevant content...don't let google decise what they will show your customers - you decide by editing your listing...common - it's really not that hard if you need help let me know!
Bud
http://www.google.com/search?q=sheet+me ... rt=20&sa=N |
_________________
"If you make your job important it is quite likely to return the favor" Author Unknown
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