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Post subject:Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
 Posted: Oct 18, 2006 - 05:39 PM #5361
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Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Posts: 44
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I know how we do it in our shop, but I have seen a nicer way that is used by others.
We normally put the body togeth, roll the collar, bead the collar about 3/4" from one raw edge, dove tail the collar, and slip it inside the the body. The bead hits the top edge of the body and acts a s a stop and also provides a good edge to caulk against. We then Norlok or spot weld the collar to the body.
What I have seen very often in the field is an offset out rolled at the bottom edge of the collar. This fits OVER the edge of the S to R body. Couple of questions regarding this method: Is it tough to get the collar to fit over the edge of the body? What tooling does one used with a Pexto (RW) 0617 to acheaive this offset edge? Does the body have to be undersized to allow for growth at the collar? Does this work when the collar is larger than the body?
Anyone have any other good means of fastening the collar to the body
Thanks
Dan |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 19, 2006 - 03:20 AM #5362
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Power User
Joined: Feb 19, 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Texas
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I don't know if you layout by hand or not. On the plasma table, I add a 1/2" lap on the top of the sq to rnd body, so that when it cuts the break marks on the body it essentially dovetails the top of the body. I roll the collar but I don't bead or spot it yet because it is more compliant that way. I spot weld one end of the collar to the body and work my way around spot welding every 2 inches or so lapping the end so it is nice and snug. My bead is the last thing I do(other than caulk).
I'm going to try to set one up tomorrow with the dovetail and bead on the collar like you do though. I might like that setup for certain applications. |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 19, 2006 - 04:31 AM #5364
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I generally make the collars for the sq. to round 3 1/2" in width, with a 2" bead. I put the flange on the 1 1/2" side, and attach it to the body as described by LeadHead. I also use 24ga. so they don't go out of round, even if the sq. to round is 26ga or 28ga.
Hope this helps. |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:09 PM #5365
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Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Posts: 44
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I will try to add the 1/2" flange to the body and see how that works. when you say that the last thing you do is the bead, are you rolling the bead at the collar to body connection? I am trying to picture how one would hold the whole fitting while rolling the bead (by hand).
Dan |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 19, 2006 - 11:37 PM #5366
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Power User
Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Atlantic, Iowa
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I think you can use a set of elbow edging rolls to form the connection you are talking about....the same set of rolls you use to connect the gores of a elbow together. I myself use the collar with a bead & tabs and Norlok it to the body. To this day, I still have never seen anyone actually have these rolls and use them....and I am wondering how to use them too  |
_________________
Stickman,
The thin tinman.
www.martinsheetmetal.com
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 19, 2006 - 11:59 PM #5367
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Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 19
Location: New England
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| I wanted an elboow edge die set but it was not available for our machine. We use a small bead die which gives us an edge like the elbow edge die set would. We add 3/32 of an inch to both the body and collar for allowances. We run the body so the edge ends up pointing out ward then after we roll the collar and use vise grips to hold it together. then we roll the collar with the edge going inside. After that we remove the vise grips and we use a stainless steel band with a quick release style screw to squeeze the collar tight to the body. This allows us to make the collar inside or outside diameter, The completed piece will often look like it just came from the factory. |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 20, 2006 - 12:45 AM #5368
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Power User
Joined: Feb 19, 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Texas
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| Legacy, what I meant by beading the collar last was that I actually hold the square to round on its side and bead the collar about 1 inch from the opening on a 3 inch collar. This gives our guys in the field about 2 inches behind the bead to band their flex duct. The bead helps keep the flex from sliding off. It is really easy to bead the fitting on its side because I've coupled a motor to my roll form. It's not as "trick" as Stickman's but it works well. It frees up both hands for holding your work while you use the foot pedal to turn it on and off. |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 22, 2006 - 01:12 PM #5377
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Joined: Aug 27, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: East Windsor Ct.
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| I usually turn up a 1/2" lip on the square to round, then bead the collar 1/2".Lightly crimp the 1/2" on the collar and insert into the square to round.Dress out the crimping with a ball hammer to tighten the collar connection.Once fit up you can either pop rivet or spotweld it on.Then you can seal it with whatever you use.You can also bead and crimp the other end for connections. |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 23, 2006 - 02:16 AM #5382
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Power User
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 213
Location: McEwen, TN.
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The way we used to do it........We built fittings for supply houses
Boots, sq x rnds, reducers. We used electric burring and turning machines.
We ran them thru by hand..Burred the body, grooved the collar,
placed one rivet in collar, snapped it on burred edge, pulled it
together and added 2nd rivet
bordontn |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Oct 23, 2006 - 03:27 AM #5383
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Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Posts: 44
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Bordontn-
I like it, great picture. I get the burr, but can you elaborate on the 'turned' edge of the collar. What is the profile, is it a bead right at the edge that acts as a female receiver for the burred (male) edge?
Dan |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Apr 17, 2007 - 02:38 AM #6257
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Joined: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Goiania
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| in the UK when preparing the square to round for the circular collar, the square to round is the male, if the dia is either equal or larger than either the sides then you can swage approx 3/8" (assuming you have allowed for this on the body pattern) if the fitting is off set you might have to "block" (shrink) in the edge that has increased, if the diameter is smaller the you might have to stretch the 3/8" out place the collar OVER the 3/8" spot weld then you may with care swage both the collar and the square to round body as one, it really makes a nice job |
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Apr 02, 2008 - 05:33 AM #7440
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Joined: Apr 01, 2008
Posts: 25
Location: Humboldt County
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Dan,
Here's the way I was taught in my vast 6 mo. working in the trade so far...
When laying out my pattern, I leave about 1/4" extra material past my circle segment pin pricks for attaching the collar with a spot welder.
After both halves of my body are assembled, I crimp that extra 1 /4" material in an old pexto hand crank machine... Taking note if I need to change the angle of the metal by raising or lowering the body as the piece is being turned.
I then take my collar and swedge (flare) it out a bit on the edge that is going to nestle over the body on another old pexto machine we have, (Don't know the proper name for the pair of dies on that machine)
Most of the time, I need to spend a few minutes fine tuning the fit on a stake... Don't know the exact name of it, but it's longer and narrower than beak horns I've seen pictures of on the internet.
When the fit is tuned, I spot weld the collar on to the body, making sure the the bottom edge of the collar meets the twelve prick points.
Don't know if that's a good answer for yaa, but that's how it is done where I work.
To date, I've only laid out and fabricated six sqaure to rounds... two were very easy and symetrical, the others required patterns for each half as they were centerline one-way and centerline no-way...
The last one was really interesting, because the round was outside of the square (Rectangle actually) on two sides...
I fought my very first one a bit, trying to getting a good fit on the collar attachment, but they keep getting better and easier each time and the boss seems happy as my speed seems to pick up more with each fitting.
BTW- I also did a practice one on the first centerline no-way square to round I did and I brought it home with me. I think my camera is out in my truck... I'll see if I can figure out how to get a picture of it for you... |
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Dean in Eureka, CA
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Apr 02, 2008 - 06:28 AM #7441
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Joined: Apr 01, 2008
Posts: 25
Location: Humboldt County
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OK...
Took me longer than ten minutes to fiddle with the camera, so I couldn't edit my first post.
But let's see if this picture thing works for me...
If it works, you'll see a red arrow where I missed the mark on my pin prick and didn't set the collar low enogh... |
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Dean in Eureka, CA
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Post subject:RE: Propper connection for collar to body of a square to round
Posted: Apr 04, 2008 - 08:20 AM #7456
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Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Posts: 44
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| Wow, still looks nice. Nicer than anyone in my shop could do. Very clean and neat |
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